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Congressional Hearing on UAPs Include Stunning Revelations.
UAPs: Delusions, Angels, Demons, or Aliens (that is- "non humans")?
My friend and UFO (UAP) investigator, attorney Justine Isernhinke and I had a long and intriguing discussion on UAPs before and after the The House Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs for unidentified anomalous phenomenon (UAP), otherwise known as UFOs, finished testimony. Above is the video of our conversations as well as an audio only version.
That hearing was a bombshell. Other than the UAP jaw dropping testimony, it was fascinating to have Rep. Matt Gaetz and Rep. Ocasio-Cortez both in agreement on the importance of this phenomona. And yes, they appeared to agreed that issues of national security, threat level assessment, the cover-up, alleged corruption and that UAPs must be being taken very seriously by Congress. I encourage everyone to read the transcript or listen to the entire hearing.
Below are also some of the more relevant quotes from that testimony, for those that are short on time.
The three witnesses, shown above, at the House hearing were:
Lt. Ryan Graves, who is the executive director of Americans for Safe Aerospace and is a former US Navy F-18 pilot with his own UAP experience. The next witness, David Grusch was recently a senior intelligence officer with the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and was a senior technical advisor on UAP issues. Finally, retired Navy Commander David Fravor was a squadron leader who worked as a naval aviator for 18 years.
Below are the opening statements from the the three witnesses.
Ryan Graves: Thank you. Chairman Grothman, Ranking Member Garcia, distinguished members of the House Oversight subcommittee on National Security, Representative Burgett and Luna. My name is Ryan Fobes Graves and I'm a former F-18 pilot with a decade of service in the US Navy including two deployments in Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Inherent Resolve. I have experienced advanced UAP firsthand and I'm here to voice the concerns of more than 30 commercial air crew and military veterans who have confided their similar encounters with me. Today, I would like to highlight three critical issues that demand our action.
As we convene here, UAP are in our airspace, but they're grossly under-reported. These sightings are not rare or isolated. They're routine. Military air crew and commercial pilots. Trained observers whose lives depend on accurate identification are frequently witnessing these phenomenon. The stigma attached to UAP is real and powerful and challenges national security. It silences commercial pilots who fear professional repercussions, discourages witnesses, and is only compounded by recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony.
Parts of our government are aware of more about UAP than they led on, but excessive classification practices keep crucial information hidden. Since 2021, all UAP videos are classified as secret or above. This level of secrecy not only impedes our understanding, but fuel speculation and mistrust. In 2014, I was an F-18 Fox Trot pilot in the Navy fighter attack Squadron 11, the Red Rippers and I was stationed at NAS Oceania in Virginia Beach. After upgrades were made to our Jets radar systems, we began detecting unknown objects operating in our airspace. At first, we assumed they were radar errors, but soon we began to correlate the radar tracks with multiple onboard sensors including infrared systems. Eventually through visual ID. During a training mission in warning area Whiskey 72, 10 miles off the coast of Virginia Beach, two F-18 Super Hornets were split by a UAP.
The object described as a dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere came within 50 feet of the lead aircraft and was estimated to be five to 15 feet in diameter. The mission commander terminated the flight immediately and returned base. Our squadron submitted a safety port, but there was no official acknowledgement of the incident and no further mechanism to report the sightings. Soon these encounters became so frequent that aircrew would discuss the risk of UAP as part of their regular pre- flight briefs. Recognizing the need for action and answers, I founded Americans for Safe Aerospace. The organization has since become a heaven for UAP witnesses who were previously unspoken due to the absence of a safe intake process. More than 30 witnesses have come forward and almost 5,000 Americans have joined us in the fight for a transparency at safeaerospace.org.
The majority of witnesses are commercial pilots at majority major airlines. Often they're veterans with decades of flying experience. Pilots are reporting UAP altitudes that appear above them at 40,000 feet potentially in low earth orbit or in the gray zone below the Carmen line making unexplainable maneuvers like right-hand turns and retrograde orbits or J hooks. Sometimes these reports are reoccurring with numerous recent sightings north of Hawaii and in the North Atlantic. Other veterans are also coming forward to us regarding UAP encounters in our airspace and oceans. The most compelling involved observations of UAP by multiple witnesses and sensor systems. I believe these accounts are only scratching the surface and more will share their experiences once it is safe to do so.
In closing, I recognize the skepticism surrounding this topic. If everyone could see the sensor and video data I witnessed, our national conversation would change. I urge us to put aside stigma and address the security and safety issue this topic represents. If UAP are foreign drones, it is an urgent national security problem. If it is something else, it an issue for science. In either case, unidentified objects [00:46:30] are concerned for flight safety. The American people deserve to know what is happening in our skies. It is long overdue. Thank you.
David Grusch: Mr. Chairman, ranking members and congressmen. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. This is an important issue and I'm grateful for your time. My name is David Charles Grusch. I was an intelligence officer for 14 years, both in the US Air Force, both active duty international guard and reserve at the rank of major and most recently from 2021 to 2025 or 2023 at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency NGA at the GS-15 civilian level, which is the military equivalent of a full bird colonel. I was my agency's co-lead in unidentified anomalous phenomena and trans medium object analysis as well as reporting to the UAP task force, APTF. And eventually once it was established, the all domain anomaly resolution office arrow. I became a whistleblower through a PPD19 urgent concern filing in May 2022 with the Intelligence Community Inspector General. Following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence community individuals that the US government is operating with secrecy above congressional [00:48:00] oversights with regards to UAPs.
My testimony is based on information I've been given by individuals with a long-standing track record of legitimacy and service to this country, many of whom also have shared compelling evidence in the form of photography, official documentation, and classified oral testimony to myself and many of my various colleagues. I have taken every step I can to corroborate this evidence over a period of four years while I was with the UAP task force and do my due diligence on the individual sharing it. This is because of these steps I believe strongly in the importance of bringing this information before you. I'm driven by a commitment of both to truth and transparency rooted in our inherent duty to uphold the United States Constitution and protect the American people. I'm asking Congress to hold our government to the standard and thoroughly investigate these claims, but as I stand here under oath now I'm speaking to the facts as I've been told them. In the US Air Force in my national reconnaissance office NRO, reservist capacity, I was a member of the UAP task force from 2019 to 2021.
I served at the NRO Operations Center on the Director's Briefing staff, which included the coordination of the Presidential Daily Brief and supporting variety of contingency operations, which I was the Reserve Intelligence Division chief backup. In 2019, the UAP Task Force director asked me to identify all special access programs and controlled access programs, also known as SAPs and CAPs. We needed to satisfy our congressionally mandated mission and we were direct report at the time to the (inaudible).
At the time, due to my extensive executive level intelligence support duties, I was cleared to literally all relevant compartments and in a position of extreme trust both in my military and civilian capacities. I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program, to which I was denied access to those additional read ons when I requested it. I made the decision based on the data I collected to report this information to my superiors and multiple inspectors general and in effect becoming a whistleblower. As you know, I've suffered retaliation from my decision, but I am hopeful that my actions will ultimately lead to a positive outcome of increased transparency. Thank you, and I'm happy to answer your questions.
Commander Fravor: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Congressman, Congresswoman, I want to first thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee on the UAP topic. This has been in the news for the past six years and seems to be continuing to gain momentum. As you know, my name is David Fravor. I'm a retired commander in the United States Navy. In 2004, I was a commanding officer of Strike Fighter Squadron 41, the world famous Black Aces. We're attached to carrier 11 station on board the USS Nimitz, and had begun a two-month workup cycle off the coast of California. On this day, we were scheduled for a 2V2 air training with the USS Princeton as our control. When we launched off Nimitz, my wingman [00:51:30] was joining up. We were told that the training was going to be suspended and we were going to proceed with real world tasking. As we proceeded to the west, the air controller was counting down the range to an object and we were unaware of what we were going to see when we arrived.
There, the controller told us that these objects had been observed for over two weeks, coming down from over 80,000 feet rapidly descending to 20,000 feet, hanging out for hours, and then going straight back up. For those who don't realize, above 80,000 feet is space. We arrived at the location at approximately 20,000 feet in the controller called Merge Plot, which means that our radar blip was now in the same resolution cell as the contact. As we looked around, we noticed that we saw some white water off our right side. It's important to note that the weather on this day was as close to perfect as you could ask for off the coast of San Diego, clear skies, light winds, calm seas, no white caps from waves, so the white water stood out in the large blue ocean. All four of us because we were in F-18Fs, so we had pilots in the backseat.
Looked down a small, I saw a white tic-tac object with a longitudinal axis pointing north-south and moving very abruptly over the water like a ping pong ball. There were no rotors, no rotor wash or any sign of visible control surfaces like wings. As we started clockwise towards the object, my team and I decided to go down and take a closer look with the other aircraft staying in high cover to observe both us and the tic-tac. We proceeded around the circle about 90 degrees from the start of our descent, and the object suddenly shifted its longitudinal axis, aligned it with my aircraft and began to climb. We continued on to another 270 degrees nose low where the tic-tac... Or we consumed 270 degrees and we went nose low to where the tic-tac would've been. Our altitude at this point was about 15,000 feet, and the tic-tac was about 12,000.
As we pulled nose onto the object within about a half mile of it, it rapidly accelerated in front of us and disappeared. Our wingman, roughly 8,000 feet above us, lost contact also. We immediately turned back to see where the white water was at and it was gone also. So as you started to turn back towards the east, the controller came up and said, "Sir, you're not going to believe this, but that thing is at your cat point, roughly 60 miles away in less than a minute." You can calculate the speed. We returned to Nimitz. We were taking off our gear. We were talking to one of my crews that was getting ready to launch. We mentioned it to them and they went out and luckily got the video that you see, that 90 second video. What you don't see is the radar tape that was never released, and we don't know where it's at of the active jamming that the object put on an APG73 radar, and I can get into modes later if you're interested.
What is shocking to us is that the incident was never investigated. None of my crew were ever questioned. Tapes were never taken, and after a couple days, it turned into great story with friends. It wasn't until 2009 until Jay Stratton had contacted me to investigate. Unbeknownst to all, he was part of the ATIP program and the Pentagon, led by Lou Elizondo, and there was an unofficial official report that came out that's now in the internet.
Years later, I was contacted by the other pilot, Alex Dietrich, and asked if I'd been contacted and I said, no, but I'm willing to talk. I was contacted by Mr. Elizondo and we talked for a short period of time and he said we'd be in contact. A few weeks after that, I was made aware that Lou had left the Pentagon in protest and joined forces with Tom DeLong, Chris Mellon, Steve Justice, and others to form Two Stars Academy, an organization that pressed the issue with leading industry experts and US government officials.
They worked with Leslie Keen, who was present today, Rob Blumenthal and Helene Cooper to publish the articles in the 2017 New York Times, and it removed the stigma on the topic of UFOs, which is why we're here today. Those articles opened [00:55:00] the door for the government and public that cannot be closed. It has led to an interest from our elected officials who are not focused on little green men, but figuring out where these craft are, where are they from, the technology that they possess, how do they operate? It also led to the Whistleblower Protection Act in the NDA. There are multiple witnesses coming forward to say that have firsthand knowledge, and Mr. Grusch has covered that. What concerns me is that there's no oversight from our elected officials on anything associated with our government processing or working on craft, believe it or not from this world.
This issue is not a full public disclosure that can undermine national security, but it is about ensuring that our system of checks and balances works across all work done in the government using taxpayer funds. Relative to government programs, even unacknowledged wage programs have some level of oversight by the appropriate committee members in the House and Senate, and this work that is said to be occurring from whistleblower testimonies should not be exempt.
In closing, I would like to say that the tic-tac object we engaged in 2004 was far superior to anything that we had on time, have today, or looking to develop in the next 10 years. If we in fact have programs that possess this technology, it needs to have oversight from those people that the citizens of this great country elected in office to represent what is best for the United States and best for the citizens.
I thank you for your time. Thank you very much.
Below are excerpts from the hearing:
Representative Luna: Considering the thousands of testimonies and videos taken on people's phones and eyewitnesses accounts made by credible witnesses such as doctors, pilots, scientists, and active duty service members, it is unacceptable to continue to gaslight Americans into thinking that this is not happening or that the potential of intelligent life forms exist other than humans.
U.S. Representa: Based on each of your experiences and observations, do you believe UAPs poses a potential threat to our national security?
Commandor Fravor: Yes, and here's why. The technology that we faced was far superior than anything that we had, and you could put that anywhere. If you had one, you captured one, you reverse engineered it, you got it to work, you're talking something can go into space, go someplace, drop down in a matter of seconds, do whatever it wants and leave, and there's nothing we can do about it. Nothing.
Mr. Garcia: Relates to what we're seeing in pilots' interactions with UAPs, particularly Mr. Graves, one of the, I think, concerns that for members of this committee is this idea that pilots... There's no system that actually report UAPs, and the stigma around pilots. And so, just briefly, you mentioned that you're working with 30 pilots right now that have had encounters with UAPs, but you've also, I believe, discussed and know of many more pilots. This is just those that you are currently working with. Is that correct? Can you expand on that?
Ryan Graves: Certainly. I'll break that down in two ways. First, when we were first experiencing these objects off the Eastern Seaboard in the 2014 to 2015 time period, anyone that had upgraded their radar systems were seeing these objects. So there was a large number of my colleagues that were detecting these objects off the Eastern Seaboard. They were further correlating that information with their other onboard sensors, and many of them also had their own eye sightings as well of these objects. Now that was our personal, firsthand experience at the time. Since then, as I've engaged this topic, others have reached out to me that shared their experiences both on the military side as well as the commercial aviation side.
Ryan Graves: The objects that are being seen by commercial pilots are performing maneuvers that are unexplainable due to our current understanding of our technology and our capabilities as a country. And that applies for the military as well.
Mr. Garcia: Mr. Grusch, finally, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?
David Grusch: Absolutely. Based on interviewing over 40 witnesses [01:07:30] over four years…
I know the exact locations and those locations were provided to the Inspector General and some of which to the intelligence committees. I actually had the people with the firsthand knowledge provide protected disclosure to the Inspector General.
U.S. Rep.: Have you faced any retaliation or reprisals for any of your testimony or anything on these lines?
David Grusch: Yeah. I have to be careful what I say in detail because there is an open whistleblower reprisal investigation on my behalf, and I don't want to compromise that investigation by providing anything that may help provide somebody information. But it was very brutal and very unfortunate some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally, to be quite frank. Yeah.
Mr. Raskin: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Graves, you reported UAP encounters during training flights, I think, and have since come forward to warn the Pentagon that these encounters may be putting pilots at risk. My first question is, you've identified these as taking place on the East Coast. Is it just on the East Coast where these encounters have been reported?
Ryan Graves: No. Since the events initially occurred, I've learned that the objects have been detected essentially where all Navy operations are being conducted across the world. And that's from the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office reporting.
Mr. Raskin: Are there common characteristics to the UAPs that have been cited by different pilots? And can you describe what the convergence of descriptions is?
Ryan Graves: Certainly. We were primarily seeing dark gray or black cubes inside of a clear sphere… Inside of a clear sphere where the apex or tips of the cube were touching the inside of that sphere. And that was primarily what was being reported when we were able to gain a visual tally of these objects. And that occurred over almost eight years. And as far as I know, is still occurring.
Mr. Raskin: Mr. Grusch, what about you? What was your experience after you came forward?
David Grusch: … I do have knowledge of active, planned reprisal activity against myself and other colleagues and it's very, very upsetting to me. This is coming from Certain senior leadership at previous agencies I was associated with. And that's all I'll say publicly, but I can provide more details in a closed environment.
Mr. Raskin: And what is your general interpretation of these phenomena, or what is your current thinking of trying to make sense of them?
CDR. Fravor: …I will tell you that what we saw with four sets of eyes over a five-minute period, still there's nothing, we have nothing close to it. It was amazing to see. I told my buddy I wanted to fly it, but yeah, it's just an incredible technology.
U.S. Rep.: In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life, for addressing these issues?
David Grusch: Yes, personally.
U.S. Rep.: My next question would actually be for Mr. Graves. Can you please explain to me in detail the event that occurred at Vandenberg Air Force Base?
Ryan Graves: Certainly. In the 2003 timeframe, a large group of Boeing contractors were operating near one of the launch facilities at Vandenberg Air Force Base. When they observed a very large, hundred-yard-sided red square approach the base from the ocean and hover at low altitude over one of the launch facilities. This object remained for about 45 seconds or so before [01:21:30] darting off over the mountains. There was a similar event within 24 hours later in the evening. This was a morning event, I believe 8:45 in the morning. Later in the evening, post sunset, there were reports of other sightings on base, including some aggressive behaviors. These objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off. And this is information that was received through one of the witnesses that have approached me at Americans for Safe Aerospace.
U.S. Rep.: Was this documented in [01:22:00] any official form, whether it was a police blotter?
Ryan Graves: Yes, they had official documentation and records from the event that the witness held over the years.
Mr. Moskowitz: Mr. Grusch, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself of non-human origin craft?
David Grusch: Yes, I personally interviewed those individuals.
U.S. Rep.: Has the US government become aware of actual evidence of extraterrestrial or otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence? And if so, when do you think this first occurred?
David Grusch: I like to use the term nonhuman, I don't like to denote origin. Keeps the aperture open both scientifically ... Certainly, like I've discussed publicly, previously 1930s.
U.S. Rep.: Okay. Can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct firsthand knowledge and access to some of these crash retrieval programs and maybe which facilities, military bases that the recovered material would be in?
David Grusch: I can't discuss that publicly, but I did provide that information both to the intel committees and the Inspector General.
Mr. Burlison: So at one point you had said that there has been harmful activity or aggressive activity. Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile in your reports?
David Grusch: I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured. And the activity ...
Mr. Burlison: By UAPs or by people within the federal government?
David Grusch: Both.
Mr. Burlison: Okay. So there has been activity by alien or non-human technology and/or beings that has caused harm to humans?
David Grusch: I can't get into the specifics in an open environment, but at least the activity that I personally witnessed, and I have to be very careful here because they tell you never to acknowledge trade craft. So what I personally witnessed, myself and my wife, was very disturbing.
Mr. Burlison: Okay. One of my constituents actually sent this next question and I figured I'd ask it since I had the same thought. You've said that the US has intact spacecraft. You said that the government has alien bodies or alien species. Have you seen seen the spacecraft?
David Grusch:I have to be careful to describe what I've seen firsthand and not in this environment, but I could answer that question behind closed doors.
Mr. Gaetz: Several months ago my office received a protected disclosure from Eglin Air Force Base indicating that there was a UAP incident that required my attention. I sought a briefing regarding that episode and brought with me Congressman Burchett and Congresswoman Luna. We asked to see any of the evidence that had been taken by flight crew in this endeavor and to observe any radar signature, as well as to meet with the flight crew. We were not afforded access to all of the flight crew, and initially we were not afforded access to images and to radar. Thereafter we had a bit of a discussion about how authorities flow in the United States of America, and we did see the image and we did meet with one member of the flight crew who took the image. The image was of something that I am not able to attach to any human capability, either from the United States or from any of our adversaries. And I'm somewhat informed on the matter, having served on the Armed Services Committee for seven years, having served on the committee that oversees DARPA and advanced technologies for several years.
When we spoke with the flight crew and when he showed us the photo that he'd taken, I asked why the video wasn't engaged, why we didn't have a FLIR system that worked. Here's what he said. They were out on a test mission that day over the Gulf of Mexico. And when you're on a test mission, you're supposed to have clear airspace, not supposed to be anything that shows up. And they saw a sequence of four craft in a clear diamond formation, for which there is a radar sequence that I and I alone have observed in the United States Congress. One of the pilots goes to check out that diamond formation and sees a large floating, what I can only describe as an orb. Again, like I said, not of any human capability that I'm aware of.
And when he approached, he said that his radar went down. He said that his FLIR system malfunctioned and that he had to manually take this image from one of the lenses, and it was not automated in collection as you would typically see in a test mission. So I guess I'll start with Commander Fravor. How should we think about the fact that this craft that was approached by our pilot had the capability of disarming a number of the sensor and collection systems on that craft?…
And how should we think about four craft moving in a very clear formation equidistant from one another in a diamond? In all of the phenomenon, perhaps Mr. Graves, that you've analyzed, have we ever seen multiple craft in a single formation?
Ryan Graves: I have one particular case, and that was during the Gimbal incident. The recording on the AT FLIR system shows a single object that rotates. You hear the pilots refer to a fleet of objects that is not visible on the FLIR system, and that was something that I witnessed during the debrief as part of the radar data on the situational awareness page. I would like to add however, Congressman, there's a small bit of anger, I would say, I would feel, that those pilots are still facing that difficulty in reporting this topic and they don't have the tools to be able to mitigate this issue. It just goes to show how serious this is and why this is such an important issue for our pilots and for our nation.
Mr. Gaetz: It was stated explicitly to me by these test pilots that if you have a UAP experience, the best thing you can do for your career is forget it and not tell anyone. Because any type of reporting, either above the surface or below the surface, does have a perceived consequence to these people. And that is a culture we must change if we want to get to the truth.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Commander Fravor, we have all seen the floating tic-tac video that you engaged with on November 14th, 2004. Can you briefly talk about why you were off the coast of San Diego that day?
Fravor: Yeah. We were at a workup with all the battle groups. So, we integrate the ships with the carrier, the air wing with the carrier, and we start working. So, we were doing an air-to-air defense to hone not only our skills, but those of the USS Princeton when they had been tracking them for two weeks. The problem was that there was never manned aircraft airborne when they were tracking them, and this was the first day, and unfortunately, we were the ones airborne and went and saw it.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Do you remember the weather that day? Was it cloudy, or windy, or anything out of the ordinary on the Pacific Coast?
CDR. Fravor: It was actually, if you're familiar with San Diego, it was a perfect day. Light winds, no whitecaps, clear skies, not a cloud. For flying, it was the best.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Now, is it true that you saw, in your words, "a 40-foot flying TikTok-shaped object"?
CDR. Fravor: That's correct. Or for some people that can't know what a tic-tac is, it's a giant, flying propane tank.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Fair enough. Did this object come up on radar, or interfere with your radar or the USS Princeton?
CDR. Fravor: The Princeton tracked it. The Nimitz tracked it. The E2 tracked it. We'd never saw it on our radars. [02:10:30] Our control radars never picked it up. The other airplane that took the video did get it on a radar. As soon as it tried to lock it, it jammed the radar, spit the lock, and he rapidly switched over to the targeting pod, which you can do in the F-18.
Mr. Nick Langwo: From what you saw that day and what you've seen on video, did you see any source of propulsion from the flying object, including on any potential thermal scans from your aircraft?
CDR. Fravor: No, there's none. There's no IR plume coming out. And Chad, who took the video, went through all the EO, which is black and white TV and [02:11:00] the IR modes, and there's no visible signs of propulsion. It's just sitting in space at 20,000 feet.
Mr. Nick Langwo: In your career, have you ever seen a propulsion system that creates no thermal exhaust?
CDR. Fravor: No.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Can you describe how the aircraft maneuvered?
CDR. Fravor: Abruptly. Very determinant. It knew exactly what it was doing. It was aware of our presence, and it had acceleration rates that ... It went from zero to matching our speed in no time at all.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Now, if the fastest plane on Earth was [02:11:30] trying to do these maneuvers that you saw, would it be capable of doing that?
CDR. Fravor: No. Not even close.
Mr. Nick Langwo: And just to confirm, this object had no wings, correct?
CDR. Fravor : No wings.
Mr. Nick Langwo: Now, the aircraft that you were flying, was it armed?
CDR. Fravor: No, I never felt threatened at all.
Mr. Nick Langwo: If the aircraft was armed, do you believe that your aircraft or any aircraft in possession of the United States could have shot the tic-tac down?
Fravor: I'd say no. Just on the performance, it would've just left in a split second.
Mr. Nick Langwo: In your belief, this flying tic-tac, is it capable of being the product of any other nation on the Earth?
Fravor: No … I think it defies current materials science and the ability to develop that much propulsion. And I know there's been some physicists that've done calculations, which is beyond anything that we have.
Fravor: It's probably the most credible UFO sighting in history based on all the sensors that were tracking it. And then for us to get visual, and to go against the naysayers that it's something on the screen or whatever. There's four sets of human eyeballs. We're all very credible. Of the six of us that were involved in the thing, including the video, every one of us is going to do 20-plus years in the military in very responsible positions. So, I'd say the world needs to know that, that it's not a joke
Mr. Andy Ogles: I serve on the National Security Subcommittee for the Financial Services Committee, so I really want to stay in the National security lane, if I may.
When we think about traditional adversaries, both us towards them and them towards us, we probe their capabilities. We look for weaknesses, and we collect that data, that reconnaissance for in the event we need it in the future. For each of you, yes or no question: Based off of your own experience or the data that you've been privy to, is there any indication that these UAPs could be essentially collecting reconnaissance information? Mr. Graves?
Ryan Graves: Yes.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Mr. Grusch?
David Grusch: Fair assessment, yeah.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Mr. Fravor?
CDR. Fravor (Re...: It's very possible.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Again, in the national security vein, is it possible that these UAPs would be probing our capabilities, yes or no? Mr. Graves?
Ryan Graves: Yes.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Grusch?
David Grusch: Yes.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Fravor?
CDR. Fravor (Re...: Definitely.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Is it possible that these UAPs are testing for vulnerabilities in our current systems?
Ryan Graves: Yes.
David Grusch: Yes.
CDR. Fravor (Re...: Possible.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Do you feel, based off of your experience and the information that you've been privy to, that these UAPs provide an existential threat to the national security of the United States? Mr. Graves?
Ryan Graves: Potentially.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Yes, sir. Potentially.
David Grusch: Same answer, potentially.
CDR. Fravor (Re...: Yeah, I'd say definitely potentially.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Mr. Graves and Fravor, in the event that your encounters had become hostile, would you have had the capability to defend yourself, your crew, your aircraft?
Ryan Graves: Absolutely not.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Sir?
CDR. Fravor (Re...: No.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Based off of the information that you've been privy to, is there any indication that these UAPs are interested in our nuclear technology and capabilities?
Ryan Graves: Yes.
CDR. Fravor (Re...: Go ahead.
David Grusch: By external observation, sure, that could be a fair assessment, yeah.
CDR. Fravor (Re...: Yes.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Is there any indication that the Department of Energy is involved in UAP data collection in-housing?
Ryan Graves: I don't have an answer.
David Grusch: I can't confirm or deny that in a public setting.
CDR. Fravor (Re...: [inaudible 02:15:52].
Mr. Andy Ogles: Could you do it in a secure setting?
David Grusch: Yes.
Mr. Andy Ogles: Mr. Fravor?
CDR. Fravor (Re...: No, I don't know.
U.S. Rep.: You mentioned white collar crimes potentially taking place in regards to a coverup. Can you please elaborate?
David Grusch: I have concerns, based on the interviews I conducted under my official duties, of potential violations of the Federal Acquisition Regulations, the FAR.
Mr. Raskin: Okay. Mr. Graves, you've said that there are dozens of fellow pilots, military pilots. Are there also commercial pilots who've encountered the same kind of sightings that you described before?
Ryan Graves: They are similar. Commercial pilots have less range and less sensors to be able to reach out and look for objects over wide swaths of airspace. So, pilots are seeing them, commercial pilots are seeing them, and they're typically closer and the range of what they're seeing is pretty large.
Mr. Raskin: What is the most vivid, concrete sighting with the naked eye of the objects that you described before? The cube-like objects?
Ryan Graves: Certainly. I think the most vivid sighting of that would've been a near-midair that we had at the entrance to a working area. One of these objects was completely stationary at the exact entrance to our working areas, not only geographically but also at altitude. So, it was right where all the jets are going, essentially, on the Eastern Seaboard. The two aircraft flew within about 50 feet of the object, and that was a very close visual sighting.
Mr. Raskin: And you were in one of the aircraft?
Ryan Graves: I was not. I was there when the pilot landed. He canceled the mission after, and I was there ... He was in the ready room with all his gear on, with his mouth open, and I asked him what the problem was, and he said he almost hit one of those darn things.
Mr. Raskin: He said he was 50 feet away from it?
Ryan Graves: Yes, sir.
Mr. Raskin: And his description of the object was consistent with the description you gave us before?
Ryan Graves: A dark gray or a black cube inside of a clear sphere.
Mr. Raskin: Inside of a clear sphere.
Mr. Raskin: And with no self-evident propulsion system?
Ryan Graves: No wings, no IR energy coming off of the vehicle, nothing tethering it to the ground, and that was primarily what we were experiencing out there.
That is it folks. Believe it or not. Personally, it is pretty hard to ignore the evidence being presented.
What does it all mean? I really don’t have a clue.
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