There are those who keep trying to define my position regarding the Mass Formation theory and then attack it. This is called creating a "Strawman" argument, and is a well known debate ploy which is considered a logical fallacy. Such arguments appear to often be advanced by individuals who claim to be supporters of Dr. Breggin. I have no insight into the purpose or motivation of this concern trollery.

But if you wish to actually understand my position, rather than the Strawman that is being created, read this.

And then ask yourself, "Why is so much effort being invested in linking Malone and Desmet, and then seeking to demean both?" and "Who is responsible for this?"


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I am offering to have a conversation of all parties on my podcast, if there is desire. With love and respect and intellectual integrity. I find this new schism heartbreaking and more dangerous than most other things. it's not like we don't have a big monster to fight together, in whatever way makes sense to each of us. One thing we cannot afford is in-fighting. We can't afford it, simple as that. We can't afford it. I wrote the story about about an earlier in-fighting in the freedom community, I stand by it. We can't afford it. Everybody should talk.


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It was the perfect storm for propaganda to flourish and it's been happening for a very long time: the dumbing down of thinking, the complete LACK of critical thinking in curriculum in public schools, the WOKE hysteria, the economic destruction with printing money...go back to Nixon when he removed the gold standard... and of course Ron Reagan, that devil with dementia, not unlike the current clown in the big house of white. And Obama bailing out the banks and Wall Street to open the country up to endless paper money printing...

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This is the first that I've read Mattias' own words, although I've read much about him from Margaret & CJ, among others. I'd have to say he convinces me of his critics' point--although I know that's controversial. There's an artificial dichotomy being presented between a handful of evil people and an evil in the hearts of all of us that we need to change. But another direction is looking at a system that rewards selfish, greedy, destructive, violent megalomaniac behavior. If you got rid of the handful of people who are currently the best at that, they'd be replaced. But thinking that we just need to "be the good we want in the world" is naive. This is absolutely an intentional plot and just because people like YNH make their motives clear hasn't made it less effective. In fact, I'd say that Mattias is doing the same thing as Yuval, in spreading out the blame to all of us so that we're distracted by our own guilt from holding the perpetrators responsible. Yuval does this with overpopulation and 'ownership,' Mattias does this with willingness to go along and blind complicity.

We need to see the actors as the symptom but diagnose the disease correctly. We were born to be healthy in mind, body and spirit. The confusion and delusions we're under have been inflicted on us through systems of money, education and media, to name three. Your Lord of the Rings quote from the Sunday Strip has it right.

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What has it come to when the Breggins won't sit down and have a discussion with you on their impressions of your book's message?

Compare that response to the method of face to face discourse and argument that took place in the groundbreaking and now famous Dr. Bret Weinstein interview with you and Steve Kirsch. That approach was so impactful, respectful, and riveting to view and experience.. It was a lengthy discussion among colleagues with similar and related concerns with some differing points of view and ranges of emotional feeling about them. In doing so the perspectives being taken were elaborated upon and expressed in more nuanced ways. The discussion was carried out in a collegial, human and well-moderated format, addressed misunderstandings or possible inconsistencies, and supplemented each side's understanding. Bret Weinstein displayed his gift in participating and hosting that exemplary meeting of the minds Joe Rogan has a similar gift with ability to relate to all sorts of audiences, with humor as needed.

What we are also discovering is that when attacks and critiques among scholars, detractors or even colleagues are executed from a distance, drone style, sometimes anonymously, without any opportunity for interaction, it is not helpful to anyone's cause or to humanity's needs in general. We must bring back in person conferences, meetings, roundtables and moderated discussions on the things that matter.


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Dr. Desmet's response to the Breggins is much appreciated. I was very surprised to see their criticism of him, and by virtue of proximity, I guess, Dr. Malone as well. Having read their book and listened to several interviews of/by them, I considered them members of the small group of what I call professional "heroes" in the COVID nightmare. I can't imagine why they struck out as they did at Desmet, but the fact that they've been unresponsive to him leaves me no choice but to reevaluate my high opinion of them.

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My husband and I watched the Tucker Carlson Today interview with Desmet - we were stunned, still processing the truth of it all. It was actually encouraging. So much to unpack.

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I already responded to this at Mattias’s Stack (https://mattiasdesmet.substack.com/p/am-i-an-expert-in-mass-formation/comment/8839799) so won’t repeat what I said, except to say I am disappointed the Breggins didn’t take Mattias up on his offer to discuss this misunderstanding constructively and hope they change their minds.

Robert, I knowing jabbing children is close to your heart, so I think you will especially appreciate the piece I just published (which includes your plea to parents):

• “50 Reasons to Give Your Child the COVID Shot” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/50-reasons-to-give-your-child-the)

To anyone seeing this, PLEASE read past the title :-)

My hope is to get this to as many parents as possible and that the title may make the propagandized actually click through to read it. I would be grateful to you and any others who would be willing to share this.

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Sep 4, 2022·edited Sep 4, 2022

Disclosure: I still have yet to read Desmet's book, but I have not been impressed by his general dea. I already have several issues:

a) I believe we are experiencing "ordinary" mass hysteria, which is fairly common historically. Giving the phenomenon a special technical name masks this pedestrian identity and deflects examination of its historical roots.

b) This hysteria is NOT grass-roots, but has largely been manufactured by mainstream media and Big Tech. In other words, the hysteria is an intended result of a propaganda project.

c) The hysteria, denigration, and especially censorship, began in earnest back when Trump was elected. It emerged seemlessly from previous systematic denigration of Putin and Russia, which in fact morphed into Russiagate, as a project meant to hide the Wikileaks pizzagate revelations. But the Milgram-level hysteria really exploded following Trump's election.

d) The anti-Trump hysteria project was redirected in 2020 toward COVID panic, caused by systematic denigration of simple medical treatments as they were discovered. Once again, this was helped greatly by the media, as well as western elite medical institutions of the west. "Misinfformation" as a term for reporting that countered propaganda entered our vocabulary. The propaganda drumbeat was "outside the vaccine there is no salvation." In other words, I see this more as Mass Vaccination than Mass Formation.

e) The political battle is only secondarily between different social groups, but must primarily be directed against the propagandists and censors who are using time-tested techniques to render tyrrany acceptable, and even trendy.

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Sep 4, 2022·edited Sep 4, 2022

I was first introduced to Mattias Desmet in an interview by Jeremy Nell on Jerm Warfare about a year ago. His explanation for our current predicament and admonitions resonated with me. I don't think I'd use the term "hypnotized", but the people around me we completely taken in by the narrative. Many (most?) still are.

You may not remember, Dr. Malone, but I reminded you of Professor Desmet's warning about infighting amongst the opposition groups when you implied that Alex Berenson was "controlled opposition". Desmet warned that previous totalitarian states arose, in part, because the people who saw through the propaganda were a disparate bunch given to infighting that rendered them ineffective.

Perhaps that is the nature of the beast? Those of us who are able to see though the narrative are naturally skeptical and, perhaps, a little distrusting. We are right to be suspicious of each other. Previous movements have used Agents provocateur to influence the opposition. And, after all, Vladimir Lenin said, “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” We must all suss out each other's intentions and motives. No one is above scrutiny.

I wrote the following comment on threadirish's article entitled "Controlled Opposition : Why I Really Don’t…". I stand by it. Some in the opposition believe our current nightmare has a central planning committee of elites. Others believe our current nightmare is an amorphous, ever changing give-and-take between the so-called elites and the masses. I am, like many others, on the fence. I don't think incompetence, hubris, and CYA are sufficient to explain what has transpired over the past two and half years. I recognize that Klaus is more an Austin Power's evil villain than a James Bond evil villain. While I have some degree of compassion for those taken in by the propaganda (even if many wished me ill), I acknowledge that we are each responsible for our choices.

I don't agree with Desmet that conspiracies are necessarily secret. In fact, the most effective conspiracies are conducted in the light of day. They're just rebranded. After all, four out of five doctors smoke Camels (or, at least, they used to).

I recognize that many in the opposition who've stepped forward have paid an high price for their advocacy. Perhaps our skepticism seems like ingratitude? It isn't. The very ability that helped us see through the propaganda is still at work today.

If there is a plan to push the opposition to violence in order to discredit and destroy the freedom movement, we cannot play into their hands.


One might wonder if the people calling out others as being "the controlled opposition" are themselves the controlled opposition.

Human beings are innately tribal. In the present circumstances, we must fight our need to belong and to follow leaders. We must do our own research. We cannot subordinate our critical thinking to others.

For a long time, I've felt that something was wrong in the world...that something was coming. I can't say why. I guess I'm just a little spooky. We don't live in the world we thought we lived in. We likely never did as that world was a creation of those who would craft our opinions and nudge our choices.

Now they have new plans for us. It's a rude and difficult awakening. Not all people are good. Who knew? Non-psychopaths simply cannot understand psychopaths. Their brains are wired differently than ours...forever. They really don't care if they hurt people.

I'm not a joiner. I never have been. I'm naturally reserved and, perhaps, a little distrusting. Going against the narrative was not a challenge for me. For others, it is impossible. They have different needs and motivations. IMO, they're weak.

I confess that I wonder about people in positions of influence who have taken the jabs. Some were late joiners who were injured (Malone, Kirsch) and have admitted their error. Others (Nawaz) admit that they took the jabs for travel. I've been wondering about Mattias Desmet these past few days. Clearly, he traveled to the United States to have that chat with Tucker Carlson. A foreign national cannot enter the US without at least two jabs. I don't think there are exceptions. Certainly, the US government didn't make an exception for Djokovic. How does a guy who has come to public prominence for his book on mass formation justify taking the jabs? I don't get it. So, the lockdowns and masks and school closures were bad...but the experimental gene therapy injections were cool? Ummm...nope. The jabs were the pièce de résistance, the most effective weapon in their coup d'état (coup d'état du monde?).

We should all be wary. Don't subordinate your thinking or your autonomy to anyone.

Beware the cult of personality.

Scruntinize for the motivations of so-called thought leaders...always.

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I think your book was scholarly, clear, awakening, cautious and fair -

and if we want to be free - we must take on responsibility Responsibility is the other side of the freedom coin !!! Freedom & Responsibility Go hand in hand

Naïveté may not be evil - but it is something we must walk thru fire to cure

Well it was for me anyway

Thank you dr Malone

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Sep 4, 2022Liked by Robert W Malone MD, MS

I am a Clinical Psychologist. Early on during the pandemic, there was so much that did not make sense to me. The term "psychological coercion" kept coming up in my mind. I sent several colleagues this article: https://www.theneurotypical.com/psychological_coercion.html and asked, "Doesn't this seem like what we are going through?" No one agreed. I then watched an interview with Mattias Desmet on Mass Formation with Dan Astin-Gregory. It all came together! I think psychological coercion is the precursor to Mass Formation Psychosis. I hope the Breggins come around to understand this.

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Well, it's great that we're having a discussion about all this. For those who haven't read the book, this "attack" may seem like it's coming out of left field.

The Breggins are being very harsh about it, but the book did leave us bewildered. We definitely came away with the idea that "conspiracy theories"-and, critically, "conspiracy thinking"-were presented amateurishly and inaccurately. It wasn't an original take. We've all seen the media do this.

It was the reference to Event 201 that really triggered the alarm bells. We also thought it ludicrous that he would depend on Wikipedia for his definition of "conspiracy".

Those who "mass up" over this to defend Desmet or the Breggins are kind of missing the point.

We don't think Desmet is "controlled opposition" or a "Trojan Horse". But we did start to wonder if he'd been encouraged to be dismissive of "conspiracy theories" by someone, or if he went out of his way to do so in hopes that the book would attract less controversy.

His response here essentially confirms this motivation. And, he protests too much. He had no "ethical" obligation to accuse, or fail to accuse, anyone of anything. He didn't have to weigh in on the topic at all; it's outside of his lane. He could have expressed doubt and uncertainty, but instead offered dismissal.

We had a similar reaction, and published our review before seeing anyone else's review.


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Thank you. I so enjoyed this article as well as Mattias’ book. I wonder how Breggin and Breggin came away with their “take-away” from the book🤔.

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Sep 4, 2022·edited Sep 4, 2022

One of the best discussions on this list. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and depth of this group in all of its diverse facets (I refuse to stop using “diverse” and “social justice” because these terms have been taken over by manipulators). Great to open this forum up to this guest, Dr Robert. I have to research more how stinging the Breggins have been — but the commentary indicates they’re too caustic — and perhaps not necessarily. I actually embrace both points of view. Prof Desmet is in the rich tradition of philosophy and the history of ideas that evolve mankind. He is updating the early work I read 45 years ago on the psychology of mobs as a young Phil major. The technology centrism and progression of materialism, together w the degeneration from logical positivism do need updating. We have been changed after thousands of years of an apprentice learning system from elders to a species that is formed by media messaging from strangers with motives apart from kinship and clan wellness. God help us. Desmet’s update is crucial as a scholarly foundation for the thoughtful leaders to consider as they may try to deliver us from brainwashing and unconscious mass formation processes. I use deliver in the old time faith way — deliver us from evil. Desmet’s work is a deep ally of Breggins if only they could talk. Basically, I feel Breggin is the much needed wartime consigliere and is impatient with anything that obstructs totally focused identification of the deadly enemy and it’s elimination. We have to win or die. Do we win by mass change of consciousness or must there be blood? We don’t know yet. And, we must be ready. But, for sure — if we escape species annihilation, we need to reform our mass consciousness and lift all boats. Sending love to this wonderful substack, Desmet and Peter too. 💜

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